Halley Stocks 00:00
Well, I think when when it comes to fear, the first piece is to really say, Well, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid of rejection? Are you afraid of failure? Are you afraid of shame? What are you afraid of? And typically, it's an emotion that you don't want to face on the opposite side of whatever you need to tackle. So, first of all, what are you afraid of? And then why are you afraid of that? Like, what's the big deal? If you fail, then you learn from that, right? If you get rejected, then well, that mean there's always going to be rejection and there's always going to be haters. Doesn't matter how good or how bad you are, they're always going to be there. And part of that is just letting that not circle back to your self worth. Your worth is not based on other people's rejection or acceptance of you. It comes back to having that you know sense of self acceptance
Bridget Moroney 00:51
Welcome to the performance arcs podcast, the ultimate destination for anyone who wants to perform better in the gym, and live a better life outside it. Whether you're just starting your journey, or you're a seasoned pro. This show covers a wide range of topics to help you reach your potential and live your best life. Each week on this podcast. I'll be bringing you expert interviews, personal stories, and actionable advice to inspire, educate and empower you to reach your goals. So hit follow. Grab your headphones and get ready to take your health and performance to the next level. Hey, everyone, welcome to today's episode of the performance RX podcast powered by aspire to coaching. I'm your host, Bridget Moroney, and today I have an incredible guest who has not only transformed her own life, but is on a mission to empower others to do the same Holly stalks is a season physical therapist turned coach who brings a unique perspective to the world on health and wellness. Her journey began in high school when she discovered her passion for helping people live their best lives and achieve their personal goals. This passion led her to a fulfilling career in physical therapy. However, she soon realized that many of her clients were grappling with complex health issues that extended far beyond physical pain. What sets Holly apart is her own personal journey of resilience and healing that she'll share on today's episode Holly's story is one of triumph over adversity she refused to be defined by her past and embarked on a profound journey of self discovery and healing through determination and unwavering courage. She not only conquered her personal demons, but also found a path to self confidence self worth and well being today, Holly stocks is a living testament to the power of the human spirit. She has learned to manage her emotions nourish her body and shed the self limiting perfectionism that was held her back with a growth mindset she continues to evolve unburdened by fear of failure, rejection, or inadequacy. Today's episode of the performance RX podcast Ally's going to share her incredible story and invaluable insights that she's gained on her journey. We'll also explore the importance of mental and emotional well being the transformative impact of growth mindset and how taking ownership of our minds health and lives can lead to profound change. Welcome to today's episode of the performance RX podcast. I'm your host Bridget Moroney. Today I have with me, Dr. of physical therapy and primal health coach, Halle stocks. Holly, how's it going today?
Halley Stocks 03:11
Great. How are you doing this morning?
Bridget Moroney 03:13
I am doing well. I am so excited to be back in the studio recording with awesome guests like yourself. So first and foremost, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story and insights with the listeners I'm truly excited to have you on. Yeah,
Halley Stocks 03:29
absolutely. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Bridget Moroney 03:31
Absolutely. So I guess we kind of you know, before we get into the conversation for today, I want to ask so of course, I did a little bit of a brief introduction with your background for the episode, but was there anything else that you wanted to mention to the listeners or just kind of tell, you know, tell everyone about yourself,
Halley Stocks 03:48
um, I think the you know, I have my personal journey and my professional journey that led me to where I am today. And I think we'll get into some of the details of that. But other than that, you know, I just my mission now is to help people improve their lives and reclaim their health. So and hopefully we can get through some of that today and how we can help people.
Bridget Moroney 04:05
Absolutely, well, let's go ahead and get into it. So it's, it's, it's cool, you know, it's your, your personal story, but also your professional story. It's like, I want to say it's almost like an intersection there and in kind of like, it's, it's a very good intersection and where you are now, as a coach, you know, it's kind of evolved, I guess, maybe just starting with the personal if you if you'd like there, I wanted to ask, so how did your personal and it is a healing journey, I would say how did that influence your your decision to help people and obviously, you know, tell us a little bit more about that if you'd like.
Halley Stocks 04:40
Yeah, so, I mean, my personal journey kind of began like in the end of my teens, late adolescence, I went through pretty severe case of anorexia. I was hospitalized twice. I went through intensive rehabs, but it really all just stemmed from, you know, huge self defeating thoughts and lack of self calm pedants and no sense of self worth, I was pretty depressed, pretty hopeless, and essentially kind of chose the slow path to death, which is starving yourself. So that's kind of where my journey began. And I went through, you know, the traditional model of rehabilitation, which was a lot of, you know, mostly just weight gain, initially, and part of that has to be part of the recovery from anorexia, but I think a lot of the mental and really, truly the personal growth didn't happen until well after my rehabs. So I think that's a huge part of where my healing journey stemmed from. And then I became a physical therapist, and I, my goal, there was really helping people with physical pain, mostly, you know, with orthopedic injuries, and I had a lot of fun doing that. But I felt like something was really missing from the whole picture of helping people heal. So when he met people are and patients that I was working with, were dealing with depression and anxiety and stress and having difficulty managing so many other aspects of their life. And I really wanted to be able to do more, because I could relate, I had been through so much of this inner turmoil myself. So I think the combination of being dealing with so much emotional and mental disorder in my younger years, and then dealing with so much physical pain with people in my slightly older years, kind of led me to really want to combine the two of physical, mental, spiritual health, all of those different components to really help my clients as well,
Bridget Moroney 06:36
first of all, you know, thank you, thank you for sharing, you know, your personal journey there, it's and obviously, you know, certainly it's, it's, it's so great to hear that, you know, you manage to find that type of healing and recovery. And it's, you know, it's interesting, because, you know, again, like, kind of, as I mentioned before, you know, you have your personal journey, and then you also have your professional journey. And the thing that kind of like stands out to me, and you kind of you know, hit the nail on the head is like, there's this intersection of, you know, the physical, the physical part there. You know, as you mentioned, you know, part of part of your recovery was was weight gain, you know, as a doctor of physical therapy, you're, you're helping people with their physical ailments, physical pain, but, you know, something that I think gets overlooked, you know, kind of having my own personal experiences with illness and injury. And then of course, you know, working with my, my, you know, my clients myself, there's, there is that mental component for sure. And I think, you know, kind of like, as you as you kind of said, or implied there, it's, it does get overlooked. And it's a critical part, you know, I think people in certain parts of the fitness industry, they like to highlight the was it the Mind Body Spirit connection there, but do we truly integrate it? Right, and it sounds like at least, you know, kind of on the, the physical healing side, you know, in certain parts of our health communities, let's say it doesn't get as much integrated or integrated as fully as it should. And that's what's you know, kind of like, truly, at least in my opinion, truly helps people there. I don't know, that was just like a call. I don't know if there was really a question there. But
Halley Stocks 08:23
well, so one thing that's really interesting is that I so after my rehabs, I mean, I would say maybe about the last five to seven years or so, I dealt with a lot of chronic pain, particularly in my back and hips. And I always felt like it was something more than orthopedics like I've had every MRI I've had every image time. I've had so much manual therapy work, I've done some of the strengthening work, and nothing would really make it go away. And this is a I'll share this experience. I went through some ketamine sessions with a, like a trained therapist, locally here in Boulder. And it was quite incredible. Actually, the first the first session, I was still in a lot of pain and it was all centered in this like ball of black darkness in my back. So it might ketamine trip was very, very visual. And then after the first one, it felt like this huge door had been opened. And I had just like opened Pandora's box to this emotional experience that was trapped in my body. And after the second one I can my pain completely went away. It disappeared entirely it it filled with this new light almost. And it was just incredible because that to me, like prove that my emotion was trapped in my body in the form of pain. And there's this concept of the Body Keeps the Score. And I think that's really true in a lot of ways. I think unfortunately, some of the pain came back several weeks after the second experience. And I think it's because I haven't finished doing the work. I've really opened up that door and tapped into it. But I think some of the healing still needs to be finished. So some of the pain is still trapped there. But the fact that it completely went away was just mind boggling to me. And also, I think, just evidence that our body is it's more than just the orthopedics. It's more than just the images, it has emotion and traps, experiences and trauma, and all of those things. And I think so much of that gets neglected by the traditional passive path of medicine, which is a huge part of what I want to bring to my clients is integrating all of these different parts to really get you feeling the best you can and optimize your health.
Bridget Moroney 10:46
Yeah, awesome. I mean, okay, so a couple things there. So you mentioned the body keeps score, and I forget who wrote that book. But did you read that book? I forget, I've only read
Halley Stocks 10:57
parts of it. I don't know the author's name offhand, either. Yeah,
Bridget Moroney 11:01
I'll have to I was trying to, like, look it up quickly there. But I want to I want to kind of continue this conversation. So for anyone listening, I'll go ahead and look it up retroactively. And go ahead and just put that in the, the show notes there. But yeah, I mean, the, for anyone who has read that book, and who's, you know, somatic coach, or has delved into the the world of Cymatics. Like, what, what Holly's talking about is, is so spot on. And again, I think that's kind of like the crux of your experience in our conversation today. But it's just like, people like to say like, oh, mind body connection, but I think the point that many people miss or they don't get to is like how deep and integrated that really is, and ketamine wasn't like silly sale sale bins there. Psilocybin scotch, there we go, you know, all sorts of, you know, like, this whole, I guess, World of different types of, I guess, modalities in order to, like, kind of tap into that, like, just now being explored, it's getting a lot of interest. And, and it sounds like and it's kind of, like, the big takeaway is like, this is an opportunity to like, access, you know, some of these parts, you know, like, like you said, like, your experience, they're like, this pain was like, this deep hole, you know, as deep black hole in your, in your body. And I think people who have practice, like different types of somatic therapies, there's, there's different ways to access it, like, you can certainly do it without the assistance of some of these, you know, I guess, medicines there. But you know, and I might be kind of speaking a little bit out of my scope, but just kind of, I guess, a casual observer, some people's traumas, you know, things, it's so deep that maybe, you know, you do need some, some assists, or just some way to access that. So, yeah, that's, that's really fascinating. And again, completely agree, like the body does keep score, you know, I guess another kind of thing that just kind of comes to mind is like anyone who may have been in a yoga class there, and they get into the infamous pigeon pose, that's always a comment, at least that I've heard in certain yoga classes is that like, this is an area of the body where there's a lot of emotion that, you know, may come up, you know, as the body is, you know, I guess kind of folding into this position, emotions and thoughts, memories, you know, traumas, if you want to say can kind of come up there. And I've certainly had that, that that visceral experience, as I'm sure you know, others may have, you know, and I think that's why a lot of people do practice things like yoga and Qigong. And Tai Chi is because they are somatic. And it is a way to maybe process some of this,
Halley Stocks 13:45
I think the word trauma can be kind of loaded, sometimes too, we have big, big T trauma or little T trauma. And I think sometimes people want to maybe even over or over focus or hyper focus on trauma, and also sometimes use it to like victimize themselves or to provide justification, why they can't and that's the opposite direction, I want to go with trauma, like we all do have big tear little T traumas, from our past things that have led us to where we are today. But using those things, to victimize ourselves just makes us weaker, it puts us in a powerless position, versus using those as opportunities really, like those are the things that have actually led you to where you are today. That gives you the opportunity to be stronger. So like for instance, I my eating disorder, I could use that as a way to victimize myself, like, you know, I dealt with these relationships in my past that were toxic to me or that I didn't know how to handle and so they, because of that I was anorexic, and I didn't like myself and all these things. I could spiral into this victim mentality that allows me to justify why I'm in a place where I cannot grow and where I'm stuck. But that's not helpful to me. So the opposite path is to realize that there were things in my past that I couldn't handle well at the time. And I made choices. Again, I made those choices to do things that were harmful to myself. And that's unfortunate. But now I take ownership over that, and I make the choices to redirect my life and to learn from those experiences, and to become a stronger human and to build my confidence and to build my sense of self worth. Rather than saying, I just can't because of these things in my past that were hard.
Bridget Moroney 15:30
No, I love that. And again, you know, I've seen, like, so much commentary, and just kind of discussion around that, like, you know, I think it's important to certainly, you know, it's important to recognize trauma, like, I think that's kind of maybe the first path to you know, getting past but, but I like what you said, like, there comes a point where you can't just that can't be here, you're, you know, the soul part of your identity at some point, you know, you have to, you know, take ownership, you know, as you say, you know, and and also I think, you know, kind of, to your point there like, also recognize your own choices in it. So, no, I love the perspective there of like, you know, moving forward, and so yeah, you talk a lot about, you know, obviously, you know, as you mentioned, building self confidence was was a significant part of your personal journey. And now it seems like it's a big part of your platform, as a coach. So I guess maybe getting a little bit more specific in that, like, what are some of the steps that maybe you took in that development of self confidence? And then, you know, how does that kind of translate over into, like, how you work with, with clients? Yeah, well, I
Halley Stocks 16:41
think a big part of it was just a mindset shift. I, you know, I always told myself that I lacked self confidence so that I struggled with self confidence that it was hard for me. And because I told myself that all the time, it was my reality, it was what I believed. So part of it was realizing that self confidence is your belief in your abilities, your qualities and your judgments. It's being a, it's having assurance and trust, and your ability to handle different situations. So for me, it was realizing that I could handle my emotions on the other side of an experience. Now, I think that there's a little bit of nuance when we come to self confidence versus confidence. So confidence, like in a specific skill, takes competence, if you think if Chris Williamson says that confidence without competence is self delusion. So if you can't just tell yourself that tell yourself something that you have no evidence to back, that's, that's delusion. But at the same time, I kind of dealt with the opposite problem where I had competence, but I lacked competence. And that was because of a lack of self belief. So learning to trust myself more learning to trust my in my abilities to handle a situation, learning to trust in my abilities, and that I can get to a goal, if I focus on it, and I continue to try. Those are the things that led me to build my self confidence. And then my confidence in specific skills comes from doing that skill and building the competence in that skill. So that means that it will that that takes courage, then to actually step into a specific task that you don't have competence in yet to build that competence. So then that generates the confidence in that task specifically. So I think we sometimes get tired, or we get confused between competence and self confidence, which is self competence is coming more from inside of you, I believe in my self to do this task, that I will eventually become good at down the line, hopefully, if I continue at it, and that'll build confidence in that specific task. But my confidence in myself has more to do with my ability to handle my own emotions, and my ability to, to step into these other areas to take to be courageous.
Bridget Moroney 18:57
Yeah, it's interesting, that thing that kind of came up for me when I was like listening to, you know, describe all that explain all of that is the phrase I got popularized, popularized by Glenn and Doyle is, you know, I can do hard things, or you can do hard things, which when her book came out, like that was like, you know, New York Times bestseller and everyone, a lot of people that I know, they read that book, they love that book, that was like their mantra. And yet in my, in my, in my observation, I was just like, Okay, this is great to say, but are you actually going out and doing the hard things right to your points there, like,
19:31
it's great to tell yourself these things, but until you actually step in, to, you know, I guess the arena, if you will, and do the hard things like what what are how are you developing that further? Right. And I think that's the thing is it takes self confidence to go do the things you have to believe in your ability to go do the thing. And then by going and doing the thing, you build the confidence in that thing. And that could be anything, it could be your job, it could be your relationships, it could be a sport, it can it can be whatever for that task is, but it stems from having the confidence to go do the thing. Yeah, knowing that you might fail, and that's okay. If you're not failing, you are limiting yourself, you're leaving cards on the table, that you are not failing, you're not pushing yourself, and you're not going to be really reaching your potential. So failing
Bridget Moroney 20:17
is a good thing. Absolutely, you're either I forget, like, what the the quote is, it's like, what is it? You're, I'm either winning, or I'm learning or something, or I'm either succeeding or I'm learning, right? So it's like, yeah, not being afraid of a failure. And again, it's like, it's exacerbated by social media, because, you know, everyone, at least anyone who's put on who's on social media, like they're subjecting themselves to different types of criticism and, and, you know, judgment or just even observation, and I don't mean criticism in like, a negative way. But like, anytime someone has a certain opinion about something, that's, that's a critique, right. And so I feel like a lot of people get themselves kind of, you know, they backed themselves into this corner here, where, you know, again, it's like, until the circumstances are perfect, or, you know, they know that they won't fail, they're not going to try and again, like, you know, as, as you and I both know, like, you know, the failure is kind of like where the the secret sauce is, because that's how you get better.
Halley Stocks 21:24
Yeah, if you're waiting for the perfect time, it's never going to be there. And you're gonna be waiting forever to guarantee that there's going to be a success with everything that you try. I mean, I think there's so many examples, you can look back to like Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team, or there's, you know, a million examples of these people who had massive failures before they succeeded. But it, it's the consistency, it's the continuing to try and continuing to try and continue to move and progress towards that goal that leads to success. It's not expecting success the first time you try,
Bridget Moroney 22:01
gosh, so much to say again, but I mean, that's, you know, that's another thing, too, is just in, you know, kind of, I guess referencing social media and managing expectations is just like, the whole idea of like, the overnight success is is a fallacy. Like there's, you know, I think by the time people are, you know, aware of someone being successful, it seems like it's overnight because they're just coming into your, your whatever your orbits have, you know, but they've, they've been at it for years, decades, even, I guess going back so so, you know, you kind of mentioned, you know, when talking about confidence and self confidence and managing emotions, embracing those difficult feelings. That's a big part in developing resilience, right, as being able to handle that fear and rejection and failure. So I guess, what are some things that maybe you've experienced on your on your own journey? Or ways in which you, you guide people and how to develop that that resiliency?
Halley Stocks 23:04
Yeah, well, I think when when it comes to fear, the first piece is to really say, Well, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid of rejection? Are you afraid of failure? Are you afraid of shame? What are you afraid of? And typically, it's an emotion that you don't want to face on the opposite side of whatever you need to tackle. So first of all, what are you afraid of? And then why are you afraid of that? Like, what's the big deal? If you fail, then you learn from that, right? If you get rejected, then well, that mean, there's always going to be rejection, and there's always going to be haters. Doesn't matter how good or how bad you are, they're always going to be there. And part of that is just letting that not circle back to your self worth, your worth is not based on other people's rejection or acceptance of you. It comes back to having that, you know, sense of self acceptance, yes, we kind of handled fear and rejection there and failure we've already kind of covered is that if you're not failing, you're, you're not trying hard enough. Now, we don't want to fail all the time. Right? That doesn't feel good, that's not great. So maybe it's also setting you know, steps along the way set setting rungs on the ladder that we're succeeding incrementally to get to that goal. And that's not it's not always a perfectly linear perfect, perfectly linear trajectory to get to our goal, we're gonna have ups and downs we're gonna have those little failures, but not taking those failures as I'm a failure, but I failed at something and I'm learning from that and growing so separate separating or differentiating sense of self from the Nashville tax that your task that you're trying to accomplish not letting that come back to your sense of self worth.
Bridget Moroney 24:36
Oh my god, I love I love all of that there. I mean, I'll just I'll just say really quick talking about you said you know, we don't want to fail all the time. It's very true that can be that can be a very demoralizing journey. One thing I like to call it the the low hanging fruit there when I'm when I'm with the clients, they're just like, what are the quick wins to kind of, you know, again, I guess, you know, in a way build that confidence be like You know, you can be successful with things, but I'm talking about, you know, again, like getting down to what is the fear? I love that because in my experience or in my observation, you know, I think sometimes people kind of miss that as an opportunity and not going deep enough, right? People say like, you know, people like to kind of maybe quit the cliche of like, Oh, I'm afraid of, you know, whatever, you're afraid of being successful, or you're, you know, whatever afraid of these things, but I think like, it's kind of like going back to like, what, what also people like to, like gloss over is like your why. And again, like not spending enough time like really getting to the root of it. So one of my my favorite things that I heard a while ago from another coach Marie Forleo, talking about, you know, I guess fear of failure, let's say in this case, like she had an exercise and again, this kind of, like, I guess, ties into the confidence aspect there. But it's like going into the the worst case scenario of something. So it's like, I'm going to start I embark on on a new health journey, well, I'm afraid I won't succeed. Well, what does not succeeding look like? And you know, you go all the way down to, you know, whatever it is, like, like I said, rock bottom? Well, in my experience, most people, you're pretty far away from hitting that rock bottom. I mean, you know, certainly there are people who struggle and reach, you know, that point, but the thing I like about this exercise that she's describing is, you know, once you kind of like, reach, like, Okay, you're at the like your your ultimate fear, you know, what is the worst possible thing that's going to happen? Well, now, if that happens, what are you going to do about it? You know, and it's like, well, you know, I could do this. And and so then it kind of turns into this, like exercise, you know, again, and empowerment and confidence building. Yeah, absolutely. I
Halley Stocks 26:48
think I've used a similar scenario with people where it's like, let's say, for instance, you want to ask somebody out on a date, and you're nervous about it, and that you've since like, what's the best case scenario? Let's say the absolute best case scenario is that that person says, yes, let's get married right now. It's like, Yeah, and what's the worst case scenario? The worst case scenario is they slap you in the face drop you to the fore? Knee you in the stomach, and say, I can't believe you would ask them to do question. It's like, okay, well, how realistic are either there as possibilities? Exactly realistic, right? What's the reality? Something probably in the middle? And what? And can you handle that situation in the middle of the situation is probably either they say yes, or they say no. And if they say, No, you're bummed. But can you handle that? Probably? And what do you learn, you learn how to approach that person, you learn how to approach the next person better, maybe you learn how to make the next time you do it a little bit more comfortable, you're a little less anxious, you're a little bit more skilled at it. So you learn from that failure.
Bridget Moroney 27:49
Yeah, absolutely. I again, like kind of like what you were saying with the was it the self delusion versus, you know, lack of caught, like, most of our reality is, is in the middle, right? It's, you know, we never hit a home run in the first try. And we're not going to like, you know, we're like, epically crashed and burned there, I guess, you know, so, maybe going back to the health side of things for a minute, you know, we've been talking a lot about just like, the mental side and building confidence and, and kind of, you know, how that plays a role in everyone's physical health there. So you mentioned, you know, part of your journey that has led you to being a coach is just kind of being frustrated and working through the confusion of like, all the conflicting information that's out there, everything from social media, to our own primary care doctors, you know, just society at large, there's, there's a lot of conflicting and misleading and just like, overall, just, again, confusing information out there, especially when it comes to our health. And so, you know, again, like and this is kind of part of your, your mission, you know, you and I have discussed your your mission as a coach, you know, to help people navigate that and find reliable and helpful resources. So, I guess I'm curious, a little bit more about, you know, kind of how you help people through that process, and maybe again, about a little bit of your own personal and professional experience around that.
Halley Stocks 29:23
Yeah, I think you know, I think it's frustrating because there's a lot of really wonderful things about the Western medical system that we have, you know, if you have a surgery, you are so grateful that we have anesthesia. If you if you need an antibiotic, you are so grateful that we have antibiotics. I mean, those are those are amazing accomplishments that we've made in medicine. But what we're we really, really really struggle with is with more chronic diseases and chronic conditions. Because we are really good at treating these acute incidents but we are not good at managing or understanding the roots of how people are getting to feel so unwell in the When I was dealing with so many of my clients in physical therapy that they were, they were building a list of chronic diseases, you know, I think it's 67%. Now of Americans are overweight or obese, the top three are chronic diseases or chronic conditions now, or obesity, hypertension, and depression. Depression is at all time highs. And I think there's a huge link to our food and our exercise that plays into that. If you're not treating your body, well, you can't really expect your brain to work well. And it's a kind of this vicious cycle of you don't feel well, so you don't eat or you don't exercise. And because you don't eat well, and you don't exercise, you don't feel well, and it's just this vicious cycle. So a lot of what I want to do with my clients is help them to kind of break down these things. And we almost always start with food, it's like the most tangible, easy to access, easy to track thing. And as soon as we start to improve nutrition, everything else just starts to peel back. So we start to deal with then relationship as using career issues. And, you know, putting in place habits throughout the day that helped to just make your actions align with who you really want to be. And so it's really interesting that as we start to just put into place, this this aspect of improved food, and we improve, improve nutrition, everything else just starts to show up and unpeel and improve as well. And we see these improvements in mood and improvements in sleep and improvements in the quality of our relationships and everything else.
Bridget Moroney 31:33
Not being a mental health professional, myself there. But you know, you can't help but observe like, like you said, the connection there, you know, and like you said, depression, I mean, it doesn't take a mental health professional to to realize that depression is at a an all time high, you know, just kind of like, looking at different reports and deceiving people in your own life. It is I agree with you, I think there is that connection, and it it does kind of turn into that that cycle. Like, you know, my wife and I say this all the time, like, of course, you know, if you're, if you're eating like crap, and you're not moving your body, of course, you're going to feel, you know, mentally unwell there. And even like, you know, again, like, you know, this is maybe more on the acute side, but you were talking about, like, you know, just seeing the clients, you know, your your physical therapy clients, like, being in pain, whether it is acutely and especially if it's chronically is like, that does affect your, your mental health. Like, it's, it's very difficult to wake up every day and feel, you know, either physically tired. And I think when it comes to I mean, this is like probably just a very big overgeneralization. But, you know, when we're talking about this, like on a on a chronic basis, it's not even like that acute pain, it's just that, that just overall just, you know, you hear the people I guess, describe it, as you know, just aches or just general malaise there. But again, like that affects your your mental health.
Halley Stocks 33:04
I mean, I have numerous like specific case studies of clients that saw significant improvement in chronic joint pain from reducing the amount of carbs and sugars in their diets. I've seen significant reduction in depression and anxiety from removing excess sugar in particular things like ice cream at night. That was, I think, just spiking her blood sugar and putting her into this weird, anxious cycle overnight. And then she would wake up depressed and anxious and anxious every morning. I have seen numerous examples like that. And then there's a doctor, his name's Chris Palmer, he wrote a book called brain energy. And he has incredible stories of seeing just tremendous reversal of even conditions like bipolar from ketogenic diets. So just by removing I mean, it's generally sugar and carbohydrates that are that are fueling a lot of these conditions of depression, anxiety, just tremendous transformations of life, by changing diet, diet was the only thing that changed. And I think you will see similar things with exercise because putting a body through hard work, there's just nothing like it, there's just nothing like it to change the emotional experience that you're currently feeling. Now, there's the saying that the mind you can't change the mind with the mind. And there's a little bit of there's a little bit of district to that in the sense that meditation is a form of using the mind to change the mind. But it's, it's often quite easier to get into your body to get out of your mind. So when your mind is spiraling into some hellhole that you can't get out of go move your body go do something hard, and I promise your mind will chill out.
Bridget Moroney 34:48
No, absolutely. I mean, again, kind of like you know, I mean, I mentioned you know, I guess gentler somatic practices like yoga, but I mean, for someone like myself, I think that's kind I think you know, at least in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with what you said like doing something like physically hard there. I am, you know, I think at this point in my life there I probably do, you know, heavy resistance training more so for the mental benefits than the, you know, physical, although, you know, it's fun to get jacked and strong too. But I mean, quite seriously, like, if I don't challenge myself physically, after a certain amount of days, I start you know, like you said, like that, just the the mental spiral, you know, the anxiety, the crabbing, whatever it is, and my wife will look at me and she's like, You need to go work out right now. But, you know, also like, I mean, people, you know, people like to talk about detoxes and things like exercise is one way that our body detoxifies itself, right. Like, I mean, literally, like you're sweating and, uh, you know excreting things, you know. So it's, you know, again, it's kind of like, it's all of that right. Um, I remember it really quick. And this is it's not necessarily I guess, it's just kind of something to add to what you were saying about just the appalling statistics in our society when it comes to chronic disease. But a couple of, you know, basically, sometime last year, I had an episode with with Christina hack, and we were talking about supplements for health performance and longevity. And she's a pharmacist and also a health coach. And one of the statistics that she brought out is there's a un I forget the exact number, so I'm not going to say it. But basically, a good majority of people over the age 65 in our country in the United States, are on six or more medicines, medications to manage their their health because of the the chronic disease and everything that's, that's built up. And again, it sounds like you've, you've seen that same kind of pattern there. And in your own experience there. You mentioned, having clients that were you know, already like starting to kind of develop those chronic diseases and conditions.
Halley Stocks 37:06
I don't know that exact statistic, but I think it's 70 or 70% of Americans over the age of 18 are on at least one prescription. And the average American is on for these these are managing cholesterol, blood pressure, metabolic medications, so like Metformin things for diabetes, or prediabetes, and depression, anxiety, and sleeping pills. Those are our top cop medications.
Bridget Moroney 37:31
Kind of, I guess, kind of like an interjection there. But when it comes to sleep in your, in your clients, like how does that what what's some of your experience or any, you know, particular approaches that you take? Because I mean, again, that's like, people like to talk about nutrition, which as you said, like, it is such a simple like, first of all, food is pervasive, right? Like, like we're eating all day, every day. And so it's like, again, like, you know, that low hanging fruit that I mentioned, like, let's start there, because I can make a quick, significant improvement without even looking at anything else. Because again, we all go to sleep, at least we all need to be sleeping, right? So
Halley Stocks 38:08
yeah, sleep is so foundational, I mean, it, it builds everything for the rest of the day. So I did a I wore a CGM, a continuous glucose monitor for three months, a couple of months ago, just as a self experiment and for collecting data data. And I mean, my blood sugar is pretty well regulated for the most part, but the one thing that would throw it off the most was poor sleep. If I got poor sleep, my my resting or my fasting glucose levels would always be higher, my spikes would be higher, my dips would be lower and my cravings, I would feel cravings throughout the day. But we are sleep deprived, we crave sugar, we just do. And then if we eat it, we get a spike in a dip, which makes us want more sugar. So we go on this roller coaster for sugar all day. And we're just fighting our biology, which makes it a lot harder to eat well when you're you're fighting that blood sugar rollercoaster all day. So I mean, sleep is so foundational to controlling and to having good nutrition. So yeah, definitely something we focus on and a lot of that comes down to morning routines, it comes down to your night routines. So you know, getting bright light in your eyes first thing in the morning can be one of the helpful things to setting your circadian rhythms. I really really like to push for that big glass of water with some salt in it ideally in the first thing in the morning. And some sort of movement if you don't have a long time, that's okay. But can you walk around the block? Can you do 10 Push ups can you do five burpees Can you do something to move your body and to get into it? That also helps to regulate your blood sugar too by taking that walk first thing in the morning or moving your body? So can you set your alarm seven minutes earlier to get that seven minute walk in? You know what can you do to get some sort of movement in first thing in the morning? We talked about delaying caffeine especially if you have a if you feel like that caffeine crash in the afternoon. Sometimes comes that can be mitigated by delaying your caffeine first thing in the morning. Because we have a hormone that builds up overnight. And it is still elevated in the morning when you first wake up and caffeine blunts it. And so we get, so it artificially blends it. And so when the caffeine then wears off, and it's so present, we get this crash in the afternoon, then you want more caffeine and if you drink caffeine that can affect your sleep. And that's this whole vicious cycle. So if you're experiencing that morning, or that afternoon crash, try delaying your caffeine for 60 to 90 minutes, that can be helpful. And then I like to do some gratitude in the morning. So even if it's writing it down in your phone, or in a journal, or even just thinking about it, but taking just a moment, to experience some gratitude for something in your day, and see how that can kind of just bring some positive light to the beginning of your day and going into it. And then you know, bedtime routines, trying to get the screens out, if you have a TV in your room, take it out, no phones, try to stop working, try to do something that's calming and soothing at the end of the day. So that could be reading, it could be meditating, I am known to be laying in the floor on my back staring at the ceiling. That is a common place for me right before bed. So all of those things just to count in and to help bring you back down get out of your head into your body and into sleep.
Bridget Moroney 41:29
First of all, in a world full of everyone's optimal morning routine, thank you for saying that all you have to do is get up seven minutes early. Like I mean if people want to get up earlier than that, it's fine. But I've just I see so many people and again it just in my opinion in in a society that's already struggling with so much sleep getting enough adequate sleep saying you have to get up at one hour, you know, one hour before I'm like, I understand the sentiment and listen, I like the quiet hours of the morning but some people that's not going to help them as much as as getting that extra hour of sleep in so thanks for just saying that. You know if if all you can afford is seven minutes then then then that's fine there. We can we can build on up to that hour later. It's it's both ends, right? It's the morning routine. And then it's also like the nighttime routine there and you know it's you mentioned like the circadian rhythm and stuff like that I think many people will just kind of in the general population just think about like it like nighttime, right? Like from like the eight hours I should be in bed but it really like as you're kind of highlighting it's a 24 hour cycle and it starts the moment we get up and you know, the more exposure you can get to like the natural sunlight and then of course, you know, natural darkness they're talking about screens and everything, the better it's going to be and again all of this stuff that you're mentioning it's not even like like it's all free like in some cases you're you're saving money because you're turning off your lights and screens.
Halley Stocks 43:05
Yeah kept coming back to the seven minute thing versus the our routine to it's like I get it. I know we're all busy. We all have things going on. But it you know getting up a couple of minutes early, I go outside so I'm getting my light then I'm getting my movement I do my gratitude thought while I'm walking that's all intertwine that's all at the same time that I do a little bit of hip stretching while I'm making my coffee. I'm standing at the counter doing my hip stretches. Like I get it totally might sound weird, but in a sense, I want you to be weird. Because like we like we said earlier the average American is on one prescriptive medication or on four Sorry 70% are on on at least 180 8% are metabolically unwell. 67% are overweight or obese. Like that is normal. So I don't want you to be normal. I want you to be weird. Yes. embracing these things, it'll make you actually healthier. But then yes, they're not maybe normal right now. Because the majority of our population is sick. They're not well, they feel like crap getting through their days. And you don't want to be normal. You want to be optimal. So be weird.
Bridget Moroney 44:09
Yes, yeah. I mean, so many things to you know, I could like just quote, a whole slew of of internet health memes there about, like, what's considered normal and average in our society, and then the things that you know, are like, outlandish and stuff like that. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Being normal is not especially when it comes to our health is not is not a good thing. So I guess, you know, this, this kind of maybe dips back into the whole confidence and competence thing, but we've been we've been talking about a lot of, in my opinion, I think fun and exciting ways. You know, people can change and optimize their health, but I can appreciate that. It might also seem overwhelming for some individuals, especially if they're not sure where they could start. They might be thinking like, you know, okay, Holly, like you said, you No eating is you know, the easiest way. But now you also mentioned sleep. So I guess if anyone's feeling stuck or unsure, I guess what would be kind of like the best first step that they could take in making a change, you know, in optimizing or improving their health,
Halley Stocks 45:15
I feel like the best first step is the one you'll take. Just take one a lot. So yes, if it don't let yourself get so overwhelmed by all of the choices that you could take, just take one, and then tomorrow, take another one. And each, if you continue to take one step, every day, day after day, week, after week, month, after month, you will see progress. So if you, let's say you want to tackle the sleep one, what's one thing you can do today that you didn't do yesterday, that would improve your sleep habits. And that's a win, name. Maybe this week, you want to think about eating better? Well, maybe part of eating better is learning how to shop and cook differently. So maybe your goal this week is to make one new recipe. And in doing that, you're going to learn about new foods, you're gonna learn how to prepare those foods, you're going to learn how to cook those foods. So you're starting to develop the skills you need to be a healthier eating theater. So figure out what is one thing that you will do not 10 things that you could do, and go do that one thing.
Bridget Moroney 46:28
Yeah, I love it. I mean, again, it's kind of goes back to the low hanging fruit, the quick wins, whatever you want to say there. But it's like, again, like, as you mentioned, like, there's 10 things that you could do for any of these changes, but it's kind of the ready, willing and able, right. So it's like, what will you do? Okay, maybe you're not going to eat a big plate of vegetables today. But will you at least look at this recipe or then again, it's like, what can you do right now? Because you know, just thinking about it, like so many of us, again, kind of get stuck in that, you know, either waiting for the perfect moment or you know, as people like to say analysis paralysis, trying to figure out every single step. And that's like, yeah, just take that first step. And then like, the next ones will will reveal themselves for sure. And I mean,
Halley Stocks 47:16
not to, like, try to plug for coaching. But like that's where coaching can really help to is to help put into place those steps, so that you don't look at the 10 things that you could have done yesterday to you can do them today. You could do them tomorrow, but you're not doing them. So why not? Let's figure out why you're not doing those things and which ones you can start to implement. And then you know, I think it's also promoting her mosey that says that the more things that you track, the more things you can win at and it feels good to win, it feels good to succeed, right? So track a lot of things. If you're if you're only tracking your weight, that's the only measurement you have, and you're not seeing that scale change, and you're gonna feel like you're losing, but maybe you're putting into place those habits. And that scale is going to tip eventually, once you put into place all those different steps. So I think there's a there's a weightlifting coach, who he has this process where he has his athletes track, like every possible set rep weight of every single exercise. So every single time they go into the gym, and they can, they can set a PR and something if they want, because they're tracking so many different things. And so they have the ability to win every single workout. And that feels good, that's really motivating. So if you can start to look at all these different aspects of your life and break them down into many different things that you can track, then you have more abilities to win, you have more abilities to succeed. And when you succeed, you feel good, and you're motivated. So it helps with that motivation piece.
Bridget Moroney 48:39
Yeah, yeah. It's, um, I don't know if if he's who you're referring to. But Jim Wendler, like his 531 program, or, I guess training philosophies kind of like that. And like literally, that's like part of his training philosophy is is the PRS and it doesn't have to be a weight PR it could be a rep PR so it's like last week I did whatever three reps at this weight Well, this week I got five and you know, any any strength you know and conditioning coach or any weightlifting coach will tell you like if you're doing more reps with the same what you're getting stronger, you know, same like again, like I think people you know, like so many people think that the scale is the the ultimate you know, testament for whatever it is progress, health and things like that, but there's so many other things that you can track that, in my opinion, have probably more of an impact and influence on your overall health and well being then than a number the weight on this or the scale weight there. What are some of your, I guess, favorite, I guess devices or apps or anything for for tracking metrics, they're on unhealth dirties. Um,
Halley Stocks 49:57
I honestly haven't explored a ton of app There are a couple of nutrition apps that I, that I, that I think are the better ones in terms of just tracking food. Because I do think sometimes it is important, especially early on to do some tracking, because it gets us honest with where your baseline is, if you if you don't even know what you're eating, or where you're starting from, it's sometimes difficult to see that you're improving or making changes. And you know, one of the biggest things we tackle with food is protein. So making sure that we're getting enough protein in and that tends to help the other pieces just fall into place. But other than that, I mean, I'm a journaler. So I just keep things and I like paper. I'm like one of those nerds that likes papers and pens. So I like to write things down. But some people use their notebooks to in their phones. And that's an easy way to just keep things. But I'm not I'm not a super techy guru. So unfortunately, I don't have too many app recommendations.
Bridget Moroney 50:49
Oh, no, that's fine. That's fine. You know, in fact, like, I mean, again, like, there's ponds of apps under the sun. And I actually appreciate you so and I think that's, I think you bring up a good point, like, you don't have to get a fancy app to to track things like you know, pen and paper, first of all, like I, I was an English major in college. So I'm all for the writing. And I think there's, there's also a lot of studies that have been done like, just like, actually committing pen to paper, like helps, you know, as far as like, creating new neural pathways, like helps us learn things better. But um, you know, there's, you know, to your point, there's so many ways you can track things that don't involve technology, pen and paper. I guess this kind of does involve technology, but I think it's a very good objective thing to do is just take pictures. So I have one client right now that's like just taking pictures of all of her meals, and it's great. It's great for the client, because again, it's like, the cameras not going to the camera doesn't lie, or the camera doesn't, you know, like embellish things like, you know, not that we intentionally lie. But we do have and I am very guilty of this as anyone we have kind of a tendency to overestimate certain things and underestimate other things. So when you just take that picture, like, this is my breakfast, it's like, oh, wait, yeah, okay, like that. That piece of toast I had was huge. Okay, maybe you know, and or whatever it is. But yeah, it's, I guess, kind of back to the point there like you don't have to. And I think that's what people like get all tripped up about I hear a lot with from nutrition clients is like, I don't want to have to weigh and measure every single thing. And it's a useful tool for certain people, for other people can be very problematic. And so yeah, just bottom line is there's there's other ways you can kind of keep track of things that don't involve so much, whatever it is technology or effort that's going to overwhelm you and ultimately cause you to give up because again, it's like back to like, what's the first step? Well, the the best first step is the one that you're going to do. So, you know, you don't want to you don't want to pull out a calculator, it's fine. Can you just pull out your phone and snap a picture? Cool. Okay, let's do that then.
Halley Stocks 52:57
And I think the other part to realize too, is that it's a phase, right? You're learning a skill, it's just like starting a new job, like, at first, it's hard and it's confusing. And you might get frustrated at times, you might get annoyed at times, you might want to throw in the towel at times, but you're learning a skill. And once you learn that skill, and it becomes ingrained into you it becomes second nature becomes natural, you just have to be willing to put in to be uncomfortable to learn the new skill.
Bridget Moroney 53:23
There's a, I guess, using weightlifting analogy there, there's, there's another strength coach out there. And he and he uses this phrase in reference to like just everyday things, but he's like putting in the reps, right? Like you lift weights, you're not going to you know, pull 100 pounds off the ground your first time, but you start by maybe you know going back to like five reps at 50. And then it's you know, you put in the reps you put in the the work, the repetition, and then all of a sudden you become more competent, you become stronger at it. So
Halley Stocks 53:57
and then cycling even back to self confidence is like I believe in my ability to learn this skill. And I think some people think they tell themselves, they've tried everything, nothing works. And so get that almost goes back to victim mentality. I've tried everything it works doesn't work for me, I can't succeed. Well, if that's your belief, it's gonna be hard to succeed, right? So having that confidence in your ability to try these things, being willing to accept that you might fail occasionally. And then being willing to put in those reps to learn this new skill. Because you want to identify as a different person you want to identify as a healthy, you. You want to be a healthy human because you want a future you want to pick up your grandkids, you want to be able to travel, when you're older, you want to do all these things. Those things aren't just going to happen. You have to put in the reps and put in the effort now to create that future.
Bridget Moroney 54:44
I love that you brought up the whole like, identify and just the whole concept of identity because again, like from what I've experienced and you know, talk to other coaches about like, and it's kind of like the crux of like, where people get stuck like I'm not a morning person, I'm not a techy person, I'm not a whatever, vegetable lover and stuff like that. It's like, well, now you're stuck. Now now, you know, because this is what you truly believe you're not going to change until you change that belief, as you're saying, Is there anything that you do, or that you work on with clients, when it comes to kind of having those identity shifts or, you know, changing their identity.
Halley Stocks 55:26
I mean, as silly as it sounds, some of it is really just telling yourself those things and then acting in alignment with them, you cannot just shout things at the mirror, you have to actually then act upon those things. So if I just shout every day, I am confident and confident and competent. But then I never go do anything to tell myself or to show myself that I'm confident that I'm not actually growing into that into that confidence. But I want to be a healthy person, I can't just shout at them in your I like vegetables, I like vegetables, I have to actually go and eat some of those vegetables, or do the workout or whatever the thing is that you that you want to grow into that identity. So yes, you have to tell yourself that thing, but then you have to go back in alignment with it and build up your resume around that identity. Like this truly is who I am. And I'm proving it by doing these actions,
Bridget Moroney 56:14
people like to show like, I can do hard things that was like the mantra of like, whatever, 2017. But it's like, okay, well now go do something hard. And doing something hard doesn't have to be like running a marathon or anything else like that. It could just be simply, you know, again, trying a food that you never tried, or whatever, or just, you know, having the for lack of a better word, just the confidence or courage, as you mentioned, having the courage to say like, Okay, this, this shit is going down in my life. Well, this is my active role in it, and I'm going to change like, there's, there's a book out there, and it's called the courage to change. And that is, like, that's probably the hardest thing, you know, again, for like so many people, it's just like doing that, so to speak. I think there's a lot of people that like the idea of being able to do these things, but they never actually take the steps to do them to actually, you know, change, like you said, like, could sit there and be like, I'm a healthy person, I want to be a healthy person. Well, you have to actually, like, do things that a healthy person would. So I think we've done like the whole spectrum here as far as like mindset to confidence to you know, we like all my favorite things, eating, sleeping, weightlifting, building confidence. Is there something else like? Or is there anything else that like, maybe we've missed or anything that you know, maybe from, you know, again, like, your personal experience, or professional experience that we haven't had a chance to go over or, like, really explore,
Halley Stocks 57:50
I think the only other thing I would say is that it's something that I am very passionate about is helping to change the trajectory of the future for people's lives. And I think it's a difficult concept for young people to wrap their head around because they feel fine right now. And you go to your doctor, and you check out quote, unquote, okay, because your blood labs are normal, which we've already gone over normal is not necessarily good. But you, if you're genuinely honest with yourself, like you're not exercising, you're not really thinking about what to eat, and you don't feel great all the time, and your sleep is messy, and it's getting harder, and your routines aren't consistent, and there's not really, all the pieces of the puzzle are kind of just scattered all over. And you're just kind of crossing your fingers and hoping that things don't get worse. And I think that what I've seen as I've worked with an aging population is that they most of the time kind of just do get worse and modern medicine will keep some of the symptoms at bay. But it really isn't allowing people to thrive in the second half of their life. And that's kind of I'm passionate about helping people in the first part of their life to put those pieces in place so that they can have a fun and exciting second half of your life where you could do those, you can still participate in the things that bring you joy. I've just worked with so many people that their life consumes of watching TV, and eating because those are the only two things they can still do. And that really is kind of the trajectory of most people's lives and I don't think it has to be that way. I want people to still be living and having fun and participating in their families and their their activities and their hobbies and all the fun things. You know, when you retire? Do you really just want to eat and watch TV like or do you want to go do things and if you want to go enjoy life still you have to implement some of these habits in the first part of your life and they make the first part of your life better do your life is more fun when you're working hard and doing fun things and treating your body with love and respect which means feeding it you know proper unhealthy fuel and exercising it and training your mind to be disciplined and to just be focused on it. The more important things in life and that television
Bridget Moroney 1:00:05
spot on, you know, 100% agree it's a, it's an investment, right? Like, I think, again, and in our society here, like everyone on the financial side likes to talk about retirement like, Oh, are you saving, you know, preparing for, for retirement, it's like, well, why aren't we doing the same thing with our health here, you know, in fact, you could, you know, not to kind of get into, like, that whole rabbit hole there. But it's like, a lot of the things that we do for, you know, in the name of our financial retirement takes away from our physical health, in that retirement there, you know, again, going back to the whole, like, we didn't even get into, like stress management and things like that, but it's like, you know, again, it's but it's so true. Like, I guess, you know, if nothing else, like, it's, it's an investment, yeah. And to your point, like, it's, it's fun to do cool stuff now and do awesome epic stuff. I mean, like, yeah, what better time than you know, when you are, like, younger, and not that you're going to be incapable if you do this when you're older, but even more capable,
Halley Stocks 1:01:08
that's the goal, the key people young and healthy their whole life.
Bridget Moroney 1:01:12
I, you know, speaking for myself there, I definitely want to be one of those those people, you know, hopefully, you know, when I make it to my 70s that's just as you know, doing the same things, maybe to, you know, a different intensity or whatever, but just doing the same things that I'm doing right now. And I believe that, you know, for good majority of people, it's, it's, it's not that out, you know, again, it's like, what's normal? What's, what's abnormal? Well, let's make that the new normal, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think that was an amazing call to action. And just great summary of your, of your, your mission there. Um, I guess, you know, for anyone who is listening, and wants to learn more about you and your coaching and kind of the services you provide, like, what are what are some of the best ways that they can get in touch with you? You know, social media website, all all the good stuff that you want to shout out?
Halley Stocks 1:02:16
Yeah, sure. Thanks. You can find me on Instagram at Holly, primal link coach with underscore there's between them and Holly's ha ll e. Y. My website is primal link coach.com. I'm on Facebook at Halle stocks. And same with LinkedIn, you can find me there. I do have a free newsletter as well. You can subscribe for that on my website. I cover anything from exercise and nutrition to mindset and motivation tips. And I think that's the big
Bridget Moroney 1:02:48
ways to reach me. Awesome. I love it. And yes, I will be putting all of those links in the show notes there. But yes, definitely. Go follow Hallie on Instagram, social media, LinkedIn, all that good stuff. Check out her website, subscribe for the newsletters. I love getting newsletters from just different professionals. It's it's it's just such a great way to just get some knowledge bombs. Yeah. You know, in your in your mailbox every morning or every you know, I guess not maybe every morning but every week there I don't know how often do does your newsletter go out there weekly, like a weekly, weekly Nice. So, so weekly knowledge bombs from from Holly there, this conversation has been so much fun. I you know, again, I appreciate you, you know, taking the time to come on here and just share so much of your personal journey and you know, kind of just what you've learned through going through that and overcoming the challenges and how you've helped, you know, people now you know, through just like that personal experience and of course, just all the professional knowledge you have like really, really awesome, beautiful testament to just, you know, everything that you've gone through and and are now you know, using or Yeah, using to help so many people so awesome. Thank you so much again, yeah, thanks
Halley Stocks 1:04:11
so much for me, it was great chatting.
Bridget Moroney 1:04:18
Hey, really quick before you go, I need you to do one thing for me. If there was something in this episode that you think would be a value to someone else, please share it for me. My goal is to empower as many people as possible on their health and fitness journeys and one of the best ways to do it is to share awesome information like what you heard in today's episode out with many others. So do me a favor, copy and paste that link, send it to one of your friends, your family or anyone who needs think we get some enjoyment and value out of this. I appreciate you for listening. I'll see you next time.